Lake Doctor | A Lilly Center for Lakes and Streams Podcast
Welcome to Lake Doctor: A Lilly Center for Lakes and Streams Podcast, your go-to source for understanding and preserving the health of our local lakes. Join hosts Dr. Nate Bosch, an expert in limnology, and Suzie Light, a lifelong resident and passionate advocate for our aquatic environments, as they dive deep into the challenges facing Kosciusko County's lakes.
Dr. Nate Bosch grew up in Michigan and received his doctorate in 2007 from the University of Michigan in limnology. With 18 peer-reviewed publications spanning research from the Great Lakes to smaller inland lakes and streams, Nate has been awarded the prestigious Chandler Misner Award twice by the International Association of Great Lakes Research. At Grace College, Nate is a professor in the environmental science program, dean of the School of Science and Engineering, and leads the Lilly Center team, serving the local community with dedication and expertise.
Each episode tackles these critical issues head-on, featuring insightful interviews with our partners, engaging Q&A sessions, and fun segments for the science enthusiasts among us. You'll get a behind-the-scenes look at the impactful research and education efforts spearheaded by the Lilly Center and discover how we can all contribute to safeguarding our precious freshwater ecosystems.
Tune in bi-monthly starting June 2024, and join the conversation by leaving comments or emailing us at lakes@grace.eduwith your questions and ideas. Supported by the K21 Health Foundation, Rick and April Sasso, and DreamOn Studios, this podcast aims to inspire and inform the next generation of water-literate citizens and environmental stewards. Learn more about our work and how to support us at lakes.grace.edu.
Lake Doctor | A Lilly Center for Lakes and Streams Podcast
E Coli & A Model T: Uncovering Warsaw's Approach to Community Health Episode
The Lake Doctor podcast dives into pressing environmental concerns affecting our beautiful local lakes, delving deep into the issue of E. coli contamination in public swimming areas. Join hosts Suzie Light and Dr. Nate Bosch as they welcome Mayor Jeff Grose of Warsaw and Parks Superintendent Larry Plummer for an insightful discussion about the current state of our lakes and the proactive measures being explored to ensure a cleaner and healthier environment for our community.
In this engaging episode, we explore the alarming statistics regarding E. coli closures, with some beaches being shut down as often as 41% of the time. Discover the discussions surrounding the historic pier at Center Lake, the challenges faced, and the innovative solutions being considered for removal and replacement. As we celebrate the rich history of these lakes, we also shine a light on the plans for future development that prioritize recreational space while safeguarding our water quality.
Drawing on the expertise of local leaders, this episode provides invaluable insight into the importance of environmental stewardship. The conversation goes beyond statistics and dives into the community's active role in maintaining our ecosystems and ensuring public safety. By integrating educational initiatives and engaging with residents, the parks department aims to foster a collaborative approach to caring for our beloved lakes.
Don't miss out on the chance to listen to this vital conversation that highlights the intersection of community, environment, and sustainability. Join us as we work towards cleaner, healthier lakes for future generations. Subscribe, leave a review, and be part of the movement to protect our waterways!
Learn more about the Lilly Center's work at https://lakes.grace.edu/.
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Thanks for listening to the Lake Doctor podcast. I'm Suzy Light and my co-host, Dr Nate Bosch, is a professional lake nerd.
Speaker 2:That's true. I received my doctorate from the University of Michigan in limnology, that's the study of freshwater ecosystems. In today's episode we're excited to welcome Mayor Jeff Gross, also Larry Plummer Park Superintendent, both from the city of Warsaw, and we're going to be talking about E coli in local lakes.
Speaker 1:And if you want to know the real story behind the Center Lake Pier, you need to stay tuned. We are so excited for today's episode. The doctor is in Well. Thanks for joining us for today's episode of the Lake Doctor. Joining us today we have Mr Mayor from the city of Warsaw, jeff Gross, and Warsaw Parks Department Superintendent Larry Plummer. I think you guys have known each other for a long time and the community may recognize your faces, but tell us a bit about yourself, jeff.
Speaker 3:Well, like Larry, born and raised in this community, grew up on Main Street. We're going to be talking about the City of Lakes today and walking or bicycle I could get to all three lakes, center, pike and Winona in minutes and so, very familiar with the area, left the community for a few years to go to college to see what they know up in Chicago, and then I spent 35 years teaching, 24 years on the council and now absolute privilege to be mayor of Warsaw, serving my first term.
Speaker 1:Larry, how about you?
Speaker 4:Well, I grew up in Warsaw as well, on the west side of town, out in the Boggs edition. You know we always had baseball to play out there, but of course we went to Center Lake. That was a place to go, hang out and swim and went through high school, graduated high school, started work at the cemetery when I was 14 years old for the city, went to the park department at the age of 16, part-time Started there at the age of 18, full-time Left for a year, went to Florida for a year to run heavy equipment, built some golf courses. Got a call from the superintendent. He said you need to come back here, we need you, and I did. And at the age of 21, I was the youngest assistant superintendent in the state of Indiana and that was in 1988. In 2012, I became the superintendent and this is my 41st year with the city.
Speaker 1:Celebrating a 41st anniversary.
Speaker 4:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:It is, and we are so blessed to have both of you in the leadership positions. You've been really good partners with projects that the Warsaw Public Arts Commission has been doing along Center Lake and I'm really excited. But there are exciting projects happening around Center Lake. Want to tell us a bit about those?
Speaker 3:Well, not only the history of the park, which we may get into. It's in our lifetime, as you know, susie Larry and I may get into it's in our lifetime, as you know, susie Larry and I, we've seen that entire park evolve from what used to be a junkyard.
Speaker 1:I'm lots older than you. I remember the junkyard Beautiful park.
Speaker 3:You think about the CB Pavilion and then the development that's happened around it and maybe potential development on Buffalo. We're still working on that, so I need to be careful, but obviously the center I don't want to say ground zero, but we're pretty close to it for our city and connected to the lake and so yeah, when I was growing up, where Central Park is now, was Warsaw High School's football field.
Speaker 1:Did you play football on that field?
Speaker 2:I did yeah.
Speaker 3:And now it's this beautiful park.
Speaker 1:What's been the vision that the city has for our park systems?
Speaker 4:Well, I think it's just about accessibility and, you know, people enjoying it, leisure time we really saw that during coven. I mean, it was an exceptional part of getting through coven uh, people being able to recreate and get out and, uh, you know, just mingle together. I mean, we were so separated and this, you know, the parks brought us back together and, uh, that's what we want people to do come to the parks, enjoy the parks and just have a good time. I mean, provide amenities, you know, give them a place to go.
Speaker 3:Larry always helps me out. Correct me if I'm wrong. The City of the Lakes, center Park, which we'll be talking about here in a minute 19 parks in a third-class city. We're very fortunate there. And then you just think about what Center Park, center Lake Park, looks like, the vision. You go all the way back to Jeff Plank, former mayor that got me in the business of serving the city. Gross, we need you. You're going to be on the plan commission Monday. I'll see you there, and he hung hung up on me I didn't even get a choice and the rest, as they say, is history.
Speaker 3:But his vision the orthopedic capital of the world, to bring in zimmer biomet and then, through creative financing, working with the school, working with the junkyard, I remember, and everything else, uh, to just change the face of that entire area. And look where we are today. That takes me to Larry's involvement and leadership now for well over a decade, head leadership. What that looks like. A lot of credit goes to him.
Speaker 1:So when we were growing up me before you the pier at Center Lake looked a lot different, and there are plans now for making some changes. Can you tell us a bit about that?
Speaker 4:Well, I can tell you some of the history too. You know, as you know, the pier was an open pier underneath and I think in 78, they realized that it was dangerous to be underneath the pier. And you know, we're jumping off the high dive. We were talking about a 20-foot high dive to jump off of.
Speaker 1:Or get pushed off. Or get pushed off, yeah, Actually going back even farther.
Speaker 4:I've got pictures in my office in 1927. They had this big water slide Toboggan Toboggan-type slide going in there. And they've got all the model t's on the beach, you know, sitting on the beach there, and everybody that's been to the henry ford museum knows what model t's do they leak oil.
Speaker 4:So I'm thinking no, here we are, you know, thinking about conservation and stuff like that. And so then, moving forward, it was determined that we needed to enclose the pier, just for safety reasons. So camden's came, came in 78 and enclosed the pier with sheet pile, put a new top on it, just a single diving board, and that's been there since 78, what's originally there now. So over time it's served its purpose.
Speaker 1:And so what's the plan going forward?
Speaker 4:To remove that pier. We're in the process. When we started the recreational trail, the Center Lake Recreational Trail, the plan was to remove the pier, not only because of the E coli problems, but also we were having. We had a flood in 2008,. We had a flood in 2008, winter of 2008, where the lake level went so high that we had to sandbag around the Center Lake Pavilion Never seen it that high. Well, it was about two feet over the pier and, of course, the water level didn't go down and then it froze and after that, after the water receded, you could see the waviness of the pier. You could tell the structure of the pier had changed, but cosmetically you couldn't see any damage. And then over the years, it just started disintegrating. The top started disintegrating, the sides, the metal pieces started to break. So it's not only for the E coli purposes but it's safety purposes so that we would like to remove that pier and that was part of the plan, for the recreational trail was to remove that pier and install some fishing piers at different locations.
Speaker 1:So Larry talked about E coli andI know that typically the Lilly Center gets identify, identifies a problem and says well, let's do some research. So the city of Warsaw is having trouble with E coli and beaches are having to be closed because it's not safe for people to swim when there's E coli high E coli in the water. Tell us about that study.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this was back in 2013, and we had heard about these E coli issues. Whenever E coli levels get over 235, that's designated by Indiana Department of Environmental Management then we would close that public beach in order to protect the health of the people who would be at the beach and swimming and such. And when we looked back at the Kosciuszko County Health Department records, Center Lake had been closed 32% of the time over the previous 15 years of data and Pike Lake had been closed 41% of the time. And so we looked at that data, brought that to the attention of the city and we all agreed this is unacceptable for these public swimming beaches to be closed about a third of the time due to high E coli levels. So then we set about the research project let's figure out why, so hopefully we can try to rectify the situation. And so we set up lots and lots of sampling, took lots and lots of water samples, actually sent some water samples in for DNA analysis so that we could tie specific E coli measurements back to the animal that that E coli was coming from, and so we tested the E coli genetically for people. We thought maybe there would be some sanitary sewer connection that maybe the city didn't know about and so sewage was getting in that area.
Speaker 2:We tested it for pets maybe dogs, maybe people weren't picking up after their dogs. We tested it for gulls as well. People commonly call seagulls they're not really because they're on a freshwater lake, but those white gulls. And then we did geese, and then we also did ducks. We gave a lot of Canada geese and then also the typical sort of mallard ducks that we'd see around the lakes, and the positive result came back for gulls, which we were pretty surprised by. But at times there's lots of gulls around on the pier there at center, on the pavilion roof itself and some of the beach areas, and the other thing that we found as we started digging into this was where the highest E coli levels were found. Now, in both cases, with Pike and Center, these public swimming beaches have a unique pier design.
Speaker 1:A solid structure.
Speaker 2:A solid structure that would go from the surface all the way down into the bottom sediment, and so in both cases these piers go out towards the let me get my bearings correctly here they would go out towards the west, and so westerly winds would create a pocket of stagnant water where the pier meets the beach. And as we did, sampling along the length of the pier and along the length of the shoreline, we found the highest E coli concentrations were indeed at that intersection, that sort of elbow where the pier meets the beach, in that stagnant sort of little triangle.
Speaker 1:Right where the people were swimming, and that's the most common places where people were swimming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so then came after the results were all tabulated. Then we wrote up our report and then met with the city for recommendations for how can we fix this. And one was thinking about the piers themselves. We have five other public swimming beaches around Kosciuszko County. Those other beaches weren't having the same issues with E coli and so well, the pier structure is one difference and so maybe we need to re-engineer the piers. There was also some safety concerns, like what Larry was talking about. That we had heard from the city as well. So that was one recommendation.
Speaker 2:Another recommendation was let's change how. But the grooming was stirring it up but not really removing any duck or goose or gall waste from the surface of the sand. And so the recommendation was hey, let's start to pull that up. And I think Larry even came up with that idea in a lot of coastal areas, and maybe you can describe what that is. But then the third recommendation was hey, we have all these gulls, maybe we should do something about the population of these gulls. And I still remember Mayor Joe Talmer was the mayor at the time and he sort of looked at me and he's like what were those first two?
Speaker 1:again, I don't know that.
Speaker 2:That third one is going to be very feasible If we start on a goal hunt right right, right right, in the middle of of the city we could encourage people not to feed them.
Speaker 1:That would be yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So, uh, then Larry, maybe you want to talk about that that. So the low hanging fruit of the three was let's change how we groom the beaches, and so how did you guys do that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I can kind of talk to several of these. I mean, we looked at the pier structure and we actually entertained drilling holes through the structure to allow water to go through there. Well, the problem is, is the old pier that was built, we think in the 50s or 60s sometime, is inside the pier. That was done in 78.
Speaker 4:Oh so it's still inside there, so we couldn't drill tunnels through the pier to allow the water to go through, so so that part was out. Uh, then I was in St Petersburg, florida, on a beach and I saw this piece of equipment on the beach run and I looked at it and I'm like boy, it's cleaning the beaches and making them look so nice. And I stopped the guy and I said, hey, what, what is this? And he called it a barber surf rake. And I said, uh, how's it work? And he says, well, basically, you're, you're raking the sand. It picks up the droppings, it picks up, you know, any debris, anything like that. I said, could I run it? And he let me run it.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know, up and down the beach and I thought you know we need one of these.
Speaker 4:I mean this is the thing you know, because before you're right, nate, we were just using a drag, a steel drag, and all it was doing was burying the stuff and it wasn't removing anything. So we got a hold of the company, the Barber Surf Rake Company, and ended up getting approval to purchase the Barber Surf Rake first one ever in this area, I believe and started using it and right away things started happening. I believe, and started using it and right away things started happening. I mean, it was a good thing. With that said too, we also round up Canadian geese every year. We have permits from the DNR to do that, and that helped as well. We oiled eggs to keep the droppings down as well, but I think that barber surf rake was a big ticket down as well, but I think that barber surf rake was a big ticket.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was almost an immediate reduction. There was an immediate reduction the very next summer in E coli levels, and we haven't had very many beach closures on either pipe or center since 2013. And so it's been a really effective solution.
Speaker 1:So one of the things I know that at the Lilly Center you've changed how you do that E coli testing. And talk a bit about that, because it used to be a big time delay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so we worked with several different partners commercial laboratories, even our local health department to submit samples to them and then would wait back maybe a couple days to get results. Sometimes, if they would batch the samples together, it might even be more like a couple weeks to get results back. And so we, as we built our new science complex on campus at Grace College, we thought hey, wouldn't it be great if in our own research lab, we could not only start looking at algae, toxins and algae in some of our lakes, but also start doing our own E coli sampling and analysis? And so that's what we started to do a few years back. And then, just this past year, we just got approved by the State Department of Health. We're now a certified E coli laboratory, and so we can not only do our own samples with great trust in our data, but also we can take samples even from other entities and run those samples, and so that's been a big step forward.
Speaker 1:In a more expedited manner.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So just think if you're a mom and you've got two little kids at the beach and you hear two weeks later, oh, the beach should have been closed because of E coli. And you're thinking, oh, no wonder my kids have not been feeling well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not helpful to find out about that later.
Speaker 1:It's good partnership.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:When the city was presented with this information, you did take action, but what other? How else was the city reacting to the news that a costly pier needed to be removed and something else done?
Speaker 3:I think Larry should start. You might be able to help with the timeline and then the new mayor coming in and some creative funding by you and other department heads. But help her with the first part of that and then I'll jump.
Speaker 4:Well, we had noticed some deterioration of that. And then we, the city, received a uh, a grant from the sasso family to do the recreational trail through center lake and through those discussions we thought, you know, this might be a time to actually create one solid beach area and eliminate the problem of the pier, because we knew it was deteriorating, we knew it had effects on E coli, so that kind of went into the planning work of the recreational trail, went through. With that, they got the grant money. It didn't go as far as we thought it would. We thought that project wouldn't be as much as costly as it is today. But so that part of it wasn't done and we've just moved forward. I mean, it's something that's needed to be done and you know I'm thankful that the mayor is finally going to get it done. You know, I think that's kind of the icing on the cake of this project right here to have that beautiful beach area, have that unsightly pier out of there and allow, still have a safe swimming area for our residents.
Speaker 1:One of the things that we're learning through these podcasts is that there is a complexity to doing things At the city level. I mean, you can't just wave a magic wand and say we want the pier out of there.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 1:You've got to take all kinds of steps. Oh yeah, there's all kinds of steps, including permits yeah, permits from the DNR.
Speaker 4:And yeah, you've got to be very, very cautious of the environmental aspect of removing something like this. So I mean, I'm sure Nate's more up on that than I am as far as the environmental effects of it and looking at the permits to remove the pier, I mean it's very lengthy.
Speaker 1:It's a process. You know I have a love-hate relationship with Facebook, and so when the city announces that they need to remove a pier, you get all these Facebook jockeys that are saying, well, just give me a stick of dynamite, I'll take care of moving the pier for the city and it won't charge them anything.
Speaker 2:That's not actually going to work from the DNR's perspective.
Speaker 4:We used to blow up beaver huts that way, but not now, when we know better when we learn about a better way to do things we do things better, right absolutely building off of what larry's saying.
Speaker 3:So you grant money and tax money. We try to be good stewards, wise use of money and, as everybody knows, you oftentimes fall short. You just you could use more. Okay. And that takes us back to the peer and you look at what he's trying to do and all that he does. It was a monster when it comes to cost more than just a stick of dynamite. And again, the things I've been learning, even as mayor all the years. And you know you're pushing a half a million dollars and that's if everything is okay. And so just really it was, I don't want to say out of reach, but very, very difficult for Larry on his budget to aggressively act and we just were very fortunate. His leadership, other department heads just were very fortunate his leadership, other department heads and a very mild winner.
Speaker 3:A year ago, two years ago, and due to budgeting for that and then not using it, it opened up some dollars in the hundreds of thousands in a completely different department okay, public Works Street and Larry is. He's a captain of the department heads and that goes all the way back to when we played football and baseball and all that. It's just his approach. He's one of them. He was able to communicate and work with others, specifically the Public Works Department, and we were able to come up with hundreds of thousands of dollars. It just wasn't there overtime pay and you prep for snow and then it doesn't come, and those dollars were moved from that department uh to uh, the pier and uh, how can we attack it? And it wasn't enough.
Speaker 3:We were able to get very creative um and others again coming in to help and there were probably three or four department heads involved and a lot of money. Can we come up with it? They were able to do it and the neat thing for me is I get the phone call jeff, we think we've hit the mark. Let's's start the public process to put it into play, and now it looks like before summer, if all goes well, we're going to be in good shape and we'll be able to get that pier out of there.
Speaker 1:And time's ticking for you, isn't it?
Speaker 4:It is. We had a construction meeting last week. They're going to start in February and they hope to be done by the end of March.
Speaker 1:Because your DNR permit has an expiration date Ends in April.
Speaker 3:There's all those kinds, the moving parts, and you know how do you get it done, and for me it's been. This is a great example and, as you know, susie, for me the privilege of the position is watching all the hands and the work get involved to get to the finish line. And we're not there yet, but it was just fun to watch all the work that was done. And here we are now. You say February, march, and it's like we weren't there a year or two ago and now we are, and credit to his leadership again and others.
Speaker 4:And that was the neat thing about it to see in other departments. So you know, go all in as a city to get something done that's going to affect a lot of people, you know. They could have easily said well, that's our, my department's money, I want to use it for my department. But they, they all bonded together to to make this happen.
Speaker 3:And this might, in turn, you talk grant money and other funding, removing the pier. I'm guilty, A lot of times I'll put the horse blinders on get that pier out. But once that pier is removed, that might open up opportunities for more funding. Other people will say there's no pier on that. Why is that? Well, the cost to get the one out, safely, environmentally friendly, now the cost to put one in, and so that'll be chapter two moving forward. And here's what I'll tell you. I'm excited to see, starting with Larry and what others will be able to do public and private stakeholders to make that happen for the people, Environmentally safe and then also safe to play on. It's a great resource for that lake Quality of life, live, work and play Play in this case.
Speaker 1:So there are a lot of public access, public use areas in our city, areas in our city. How do you prioritize what gets?
Speaker 3:done first and what's on your dream list to get done, larry, you could talk a little bit about. Again, back to the help from the departments. They have short and long-term planning. Larry, will be talking to the city council if not our next meeting it's coming where you'll be updating us on what happened last year for your department specifically. But talk a little bit about the short and long-term planning just for your department. And again, this goes on, susie, as you know, in all departments, but I think important we talk about this one.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we do a five-year master plan every five years and we pretty much have been able to stick to the plan, I mean for the years. There might be a year where we just don't have the funds to do it, but we just bump it a year and try to get it done. But uh, this year we're going to work on some playground removal and updating. Uh, we started that back probably 15 years ago. We had an incident where we had somebody get hurt on a playground and it opened our eyes to playground safety.
Speaker 4:So that's one of the things that's always in our master plan is keeping our playground up to date, worrying about pinch points and things of that sort. So the council has been really good about giving us funding to do that. So that's big on our plate this year. But you know it's just a process, susie, you know we're always looking to how can we expand our facilities, how can we make them better. You know, how can we serve the public better? And that's kind of the survey that we get from our five-year master plan from all the residents of Warsaw. They say what do you want to see us do in five years? And that's kind of our Bible to lead us through the next five years.
Speaker 1:So we've been talking about the Center Lake Pier. Pike Lake also has a pier that's in better shape because it didn't get flooded like the Center Lake Pier. What are the plans around Pike Lake?
Speaker 4:Basically right now. I mean we're just going to keep that pier there, you know, as long as it's it's stable and not deteriorating. Um, it serves its purpose. And, uh, you know, we've, uh, we've expanded our, uh, our recreational area out there with kayak kiosks and paddleboard kiosks. That have been a big hit. Uh, we've seen our revenue double in the last two years from using those. So that's just just. We want to use the lakes like they're supposed to be used and have people be able to use them and use them safely and, you know, have clean lakes.
Speaker 2:So another upgrade around around both of these lakes that we've been talking about, that I think would be important to mention to our viewers and listeners as well, is some of the native plants that have gone around those lakes and that's come as a joint project with the parks department and with the stormwater utility and we've helped out with that as the lily center as well in planning some of those.
Speaker 2:And so what we have now around in parts of Lucerne Park on Pike Lake, all wrapping around there towards Pike Lake Park, and then some fishing areas interspersed in there, and then on Center Lake through the recreational trail from the Sasso family that you were mentioning, larry, all along their native plants.
Speaker 2:We just installed or are being installed some new signs along there which describe some of the native plants and how lakes work and what the ecosystems are like, and so these are now beautiful show pieces or models for our community to look at. What can our lake shorelines look like and the city sort of being good stewards of the property that they own around those lakes and wanting to do that, and so just beautiful sort of locations. And on our set here we've got some pictures of young people hanging out at these lakes and over here to over my left shoulder is some kids, preschoolers playing in the water with waders on and there's lily pads around them and some plants in the background. And this is what our lakeshores should be like and this is a healthy ecosystem in our lakes. And so the lakes are going to be better for recreation, safer for people to use, healthier as we do some of these sorts of things, and so it's been great partnership all around.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we just finished up two projects. We extended on back to the fireman's building with the shoreline stabilization, and then we also did Kiwanis Park, which is part of Wainona Lake. That was just done too. So you know, we're fortunate at Stormwater Dollars that have allowed us to do that, because we've lost a lot of land over the years, and this shores that up and makes our lakes even better, yeah, so let's mention that, larry, that's good.
Speaker 2:So you said shore that up so these native plants can actually cut down on erosion. So the city was actually losing property over time as you had wave activity and the banks along the lake. Now these native plants are holding in that soil. We're getting better habitat for fish just off the shoreline. We're getting better habitat for fish just off the shoreline and also we're intercepting any sediments or nutrients that might be flowing off the city's property into the lake and maybe causing degradation in the lake from excess weeds and algae that might be growing. So really, really good things.
Speaker 1:So City of Lakes, or it says, surrounded by three lakes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was just going to say before you started, I hope I'm going the direction you want. You look at the city crest and living, working and playing and you'll see lake activity and what I've really liked about larry and there are others, nate as well is the importance of protecting this very, very, very, very if I said very valuable resource. I want to live on the lake, I want to go to the lake, I want to go to these parks that surround our lakes because they're environmentally safe, they're clean, there's places to have fun in the water and on the beach. It is critical and I think a lot of times, people in my business, starting with me, we forget that we're more let's get the houses up, let's get this up, let's put a pier just to get it in, and we don't think about everything that's involved back to, let's get back to the beginning.
Speaker 3:It's a very valuable resource, natural resource, and I think what Nate has done and we have all been trying to do it, and again I'm so thankful I'm surrounded by people that think and know this way is to stay on balance. You know I played sports and the number one rule any sport you're on Larry heard it football. Uh, I heard it in basketball be on balance, don't get off too much. You can have fun on the lake, but we can protect the lake. We can protect the lake, but we can also have fun on it. That and you just need people back to larry's comments short and long term to be working through this every day, every year, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Well, the lakes are certainly an economic engine and what I really appreciate is that the city of Warsaw, connecting downtown to Center Lake and really pleased with the partnership, on a personal note, with warsaw public arts commission, has with the park department and the fact that you can see a beautiful sculpture from downtown warsaw that is on center lake and and more art to come we hope so we hope so larry and I've giggled before.
Speaker 3:I mean in the truck and all that kind of stuff. It's's kids growing up in the area. Just how the community has changed. And then I think about living, working and playing, how it's different than what it was when we were kids. Larry's talked about it the park it used to be. You put the gymnasium stuff up and then that's it. He does that now, but it isn't the big 20 foot high metal slide and all the safety is a high priority. More of it and then also the programming that's involved you notice, he said yes, he said educate people.
Speaker 3:So when I walk on the path I see all that. I'm not only having fun, but I'm learning about the environment and the importance of young or old guys like me that have been here forever of taking care of it. And then, even further, just all the recreational activities that you have are major events at Center Park and elsewhere, to just make it a better place to live. That takes me back to we need to take care of the lakes for all of it on balance.
Speaker 1:In 1967, I was a freshman in high school Center Lake was frozen and one of the service clubs did a fundraiser, put a car out on the ice of Center Lake and took lottery as to what day will that car sink into Center Lake.
Speaker 2:Are you serious? I am not kidding. Yes, oh man, I got to put my fingers in my ears here. They toed it out afterwards. Oh good, okay, so they say. So. They say there was no gas in the tank, there was no oil in the engine.
Speaker 3:That was back when the city of Warsaw's drinking water came out of center lakes, out of the lakes, wow. Okay. So there we are. That's sort of my point I'm trying to make when we know better, we do better.
Speaker 2:Absolutely I'm glad we know better now.
Speaker 1:Sometimes people get cranky. They don't understand what's happening, why things are happening the way they are. How do you help naysayers start to know better to do better?
Speaker 4:we can do is communicate with them, bring them in, explain to them why we're doing the things we're doing, the benefits of what we're doing, and I've just, over the years, found out if you educate them and let them know what's happening and why it's happening and the good it's doing for our community, most of them accept it and I'll just say in my years, you know, I've taught government and politics for 35 years.
Speaker 3:I've been an elected official now for 25. I would like to think we're probably going to fall short at times because we don't communicate as effectively or we think we are and we aren't as what we should. But there is that part where, as a citizen, the flag that we have, the Democratic Republic that we have there's a responsibility for each individual to learn what is going on and appreciate the fact. Let's just think about the park department alone. We have a park board, we have a city council, we have a park superintendent, we have a mayor, we have a clerk treasurer, we also have park now at the county level. We have neighbors in this community that are serving on all of these boards.
Speaker 3:So you may be like me on Main Street or now Clark Street. What are they thinking or why are they doing this? And oftentimes I've had to tell people well, last year, or our five-year plan, or your neighbor that lives two blocks away that sits on that board for X amount. You actually are in the know through them and if you do want to learn more, talk to them.
Speaker 1:Or attend a meeting.
Speaker 3:Attend the meetings, get involved. And again, I don't want to get into right and wrong, but I like to remind people, maybe even starting with me as a councilman and now mayor. I'm doing this for you too, and the door's open. Talk to me. You can come to any meeting and speak up, just educating yourself about the system and how it does work. Being patient, I would prefer I've told everybody talk to me first, or a member of a board or a council member, before you do make a statement at the water cooler in the lunchroom to your neighbor across the street, or now with social media. And I'm all for open communication and saying what you want. But I think let's back that up, try to make sure it's on the right path, it's truthful, it's correct and if it's an opinion, state that as well. And sometimes we don't get that this day and age and that can make life difficult for guys like Larry, for others in the community, but that's our job. That's our job.
Speaker 4:I get calls every once in a while when we take a tree down or when the emerald ash borer came through and destroyed all our trees on Canal Street. You know why are we taking trees down and you know there's always a reason that we do. But we always have a protocol that every tree we take down we put one or two back in, just for the next generation. You know I don't want just fields where nobody can enjoy shade or anything. So that's been our policy for a long time. So it's just educating them. They were irate at first, but once I brought them in the office and showed them our vision and how we do things, they were. They were great, they loved it. They were happy that we were replacing everything that we were taking down.
Speaker 2:Even though even those native plants that we were talking about along the shoreline, some of the people fishing along the shoreline well, why do we've got these weeds along here, and I can't fish in as many locations or people walking along the uh, the trail there at center lake now saying, well, you know, why are these weeds growing here? It used to be just nice mowed grass right up to the lake. Well, with some of that educational signage and some of the programs we do, now we understand the purpose behind it, the function behind it and, like you said, larry, most people then, once they understand that, they go from frustration to oh well, actually this was pretty well thought out and you're actually trying to protect the lake.
Speaker 3:You should be the mayor. He doesn't live in Warsawaw, that's the goal, the balance, and then just explaining to people this just wasn't some harebrained idea.
Speaker 1:We actually have people that have worked through this yeah very well said, yeah so one of the things I know that we've talked about for a couple of years um fribly field. Fribly field where the football is, and then Liz Frazier, where a little baseball diamond is Between those two is a wetlands area and Phragmites were growing in there. So Phragmites is an invasive species. But when you started to address the problem, people were calling and saying you're cutting the cattails down. They're so pretty, Leave them alone.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, and we've got that on our radar for another stormwater project to revitalize that area and get those invasive species out of there.
Speaker 2:I'm working with Brandon at Stormwater on that too as well, and those Phragmites, like a lot of exotic species, are really aggressive and so they're sort of crowding in the outfield of that diamond and even extending beyond the wet area into the drier area. And yeah, quite a common problem that we have with exotic species.
Speaker 1:And the problem with those. We were having this discussion when I was at the foundation. Somebody said well, so what? And the so what was? Native species of plants attract native species of wildlife birds. Birds eat mosquitoes. If Phragmites is growing, birds don't go there because there's no nutritional value. So the mosquitoes are growing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's habitat for our local native animals and the plants, but it's also those ecosystems. When they have native plants and animals, they function as the ecosystems should and things are back to what the mayor was saying before about balance. Things are then put back into balance and things function better. We have less flooding, less those sorts of issues, when we have the right species in the right places.
Speaker 1:So we've talked in the past podcast about stewardship and I want to thank you, both Larry and Jeff, mayor Jeff for being really good stewards of what has been entrusted to you as the head of the park department, and not only do you steward our environment, but you are stewarding your staff so well.
Speaker 4:Thank you. I appreciate that I've got a great team. They've bought into the concept of being a team and I'm so proud of them. We work on it hard, we work on it weekly, we work on it daily and it's just a joy to work with all of them.
Speaker 1:And stewardship. When it comes to coaching your team as mayor, I think you wear your coach hat all the time.
Speaker 3:I'm a teacher and a coach and I'm just pretending to be a mayor now. But the leaders that I have, like Larry, and then what they're teaching not only their own staff I'd like to think that that's also working its way out into the community and think of community. All that I've been taught in my lifetime, starting with mom Jeff be a good boy and I oftentimes heard that from her because I wasn't but that kind of thing, I think, is the team play and other department heads keeping an eye on there and asking I think they come and visit at times what are you doing to have that positive, good culture as we serve our neighbors? That's actually what they're doing. It is so important.
Speaker 3:It's what I've been taught and I love it when guys like Larry and our staff, they walk that direction because it's you can't put your thumb on it, but it's different. And I'd like to say it's you can't put your thumb on it, but it's different. And I'd like to say it's better. But you know it's hard work that they do. It's hard work of the public sector side serving the private sector, but it's work that has to be done and we're fortunate to have guys like him doing it.
Speaker 1:Thank you both very much for being with us today and participating in the Lake Doctor podcast, and again thank you for your leadership and your vision for our community. Neighbors serving neighbors.
Speaker 3:While cultivating community.
Speaker 1:Thanks, neighbor, thank you Appreciate it. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Lake Doctor podcast. Please like, subscribe and share, and make sure to join us next time. It's bound to be fun.
Speaker 2:Listening to this podcast is just the first step to making your lake cleaner and healthier. Visit lakesgraceedu for more information about our applied research and discover some tangible ways you can make a difference on your lake.
Speaker 1:If you have a comment or a question that we can discuss in future episodes, leave a comment or send an email to lakes at graceedu. We'll see you next time. The doctor is in.